tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post4360824820581691705..comments2024-02-15T01:12:13.681-08:00Comments on Pin Dancing: Stuck in CodeRavihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03630087669712445498noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-18936050538603260682011-06-08T06:49:33.632-07:002011-06-08T06:49:33.632-07:00Hi,
Thats a very interesting post, thanks.
I feel ...Hi,<br />Thats a very interesting post, thanks.<br />I feel in fact that that 'coding' may be many orders of magnitude more skilled a job than managing people.<br />I am a game programmer myself and although it is sometimes a little too daunting, the challenge of finding solving wierd and hard to find bugs is indeed worth the effort.<br />Nice post once again.<br />ThanksGhondanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16021138555758194985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-60285714206899601262011-01-25T12:27:11.950-08:002011-01-25T12:27:11.950-08:00Great post and one which Indian programmers need t...Great post and one which Indian programmers need to embrace if we are to get our "Google" or "Microsoft". Before I started mobikwik.com, I always thought its easy to hire some developer and the main thing is putting the business together. I learnt some Java coding in the last 1 year because I was forced to. I belong to the "google the algo" category so I can totally appreciate what a experienced developer brings to the table!Bipinhttp://www.mobikwik.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-27048463746182976242010-12-03T09:13:40.078-08:002010-12-03T09:13:40.078-08:00Thoroughly enjoyed reading this ...
I myself am fa...Thoroughly enjoyed reading this ...<br />I myself am facing the same situation.<br />I think I need to act quick so as not to get promoted to a "non coding" post.<br /><br />PS: Am an X-CETian :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-3962115143477946932010-11-28T21:38:33.857-08:002010-11-28T21:38:33.857-08:00Great read. Seems very insightful.Great read. Seems very insightful.OMFGITSROHIThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07500024711541096567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-21387630617924453282010-11-23T04:32:14.581-08:002010-11-23T04:32:14.581-08:00Clearly one of the best posts i've have read i...Clearly one of the best posts i've have read in a while. As 'just another developer', its great to see that there are so many people who are passionate about development. I also strongly agree with Rax, Dilbert and others who mentioned that there are a handful of companies that build to make a difference and not just to please a client and the competition to get into these organizations is stiff.<br /><br />Awesome post again Ravi.Siddharthhttp://http;//siddharth-ravichandran.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-13730651119729736412010-11-22T21:40:28.177-08:002010-11-22T21:40:28.177-08:00Ravi, very fortifying post. I myself am a CTO in t...Ravi, very fortifying post. I myself am a CTO in the last two companies I have been with (in Bangalore), and I am very much like you. Many find it odd. I still actively code - and its great to hear you expressing that same thoughts I feel. If you are in Bangalore we should get together some time.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14460738626155683844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-9800872427143104912010-11-22T09:01:10.678-08:002010-11-22T09:01:10.678-08:00Ravi, Nice article indeed, but i would say thanks ...Ravi, Nice article indeed, but i would say thanks that you raised the point. <br />I am definitely not a even average developer but i love to code and solve problems. I want to stay developer. Thanks for motivation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-64518212166629673772010-11-22T08:40:28.686-08:002010-11-22T08:40:28.686-08:00Ravi, the same thing happens here in Brazil. Peopl...Ravi, the same thing happens here in Brazil. People are pretty much expected to climb out of the technical jobs. Maybe this helps explain the technical illiteracy of society as a whole.Thiago Arraishttp://blog.thiagoarrais.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-38861651744288166662010-11-22T07:07:53.185-08:002010-11-22T07:07:53.185-08:00Excellent article! Ahh.. on the other side of the ...Excellent article! Ahh.. on the other side of the globe, I do not feel alone =) Thanks!Bryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-6887138507427410992010-11-22T05:14:26.719-08:002010-11-22T05:14:26.719-08:00Great post it ad a long lost inner culture within ...Great post it ad a long lost inner culture within company's the greatest reward is the satisfaction into building something not setting up the table for others you can still do both and it does not make yourself lesser then others going up.<br />If it turns that way one has to do managing as being qualified I say o.k he/she experienced go for it their needed. Managers are mostly worker grunts going for bigger rewards missing in the end the true value like teamwork ,group education ,involvement.WulfCryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02282014972682731566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-67022854174695648292010-11-22T04:12:07.985-08:002010-11-22T04:12:07.985-08:00I don't think what you are experiencing is uni...I don't think what you are experiencing is unique to India. In France, in most computer services company, this is exactly the same. (and btw I do love to call myself a developper too ;))<br /><br />Maybe we should create a developper pride network :)Bobylitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05579153425516381386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-21006562152516878932010-10-08T23:38:35.944-07:002010-10-08T23:38:35.944-07:00Know what guys...this boils down to Dignity of Lab...Know what guys...this boils down to Dignity of Labour: and its not a oneway street...your boss needs to respect your job and you need to respect his. Im a developer. I have had the oppurtunity to work with excellent managers and some horrible ones. The bad ones always say: "Anyone can code". Watch out for that!Rahulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818134668117256326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-65278958873902371112010-10-02T13:25:26.850-07:002010-10-02T13:25:26.850-07:00Even the so called big companies do nothing cool i...Even the so called big companies do nothing cool in india...just low end work.Indian society really need role models.<br />Any advise for freshers on how to find a startup with interesting and challenging work ?rishabhhttp://rishabhsays.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-40550693417683222562010-09-06T13:59:42.618-07:002010-09-06T13:59:42.618-07:00This blog has received so many responses that it i...This blog has received so many responses that it is often possible to loose track. Some points that lost track are <br /><br /><br />1. "i'm just a developer", quote was created, by a thoughtful thoughtworks employee to reflect the sarcastic opinion of the people who de-mean coding or software development, but not to be taken as "feeling aweful to be coder" attitude.<br /><br /><br />2. Somebody equates this, to an insight into Indian culture and other uses it an opportunity to criticize India, both are not correct.<br /><br />3. It is not anything bad about managers, in general. As bong rightly said , "Good managers are just as hard to find as good developers."Avinash Mangipudihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10259294692133022769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-58469685537204643412010-09-06T13:09:22.139-07:002010-09-06T13:09:22.139-07:00It is a flow against the tide to stick to developm...It is a flow against the tide to stick to development after getting X number of years of experience. We have examples from respondents who have endured and stuck to coding/development work. Another example i know is of my dad. He was not from software, but has learnt coding once few years back and has ever since been fascinated by it. He is 62 years old now and he loves coding which amazes me, till date.Avinash Mangipudihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10259294692133022769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-24323699741477211482010-06-27T09:14:20.177-07:002010-06-27T09:14:20.177-07:00Thanks! Its a wonderful post and I'll b sharin...Thanks! Its a wonderful post and I'll b sharing it with my group of colleagues, with whom I've been discussing the same thing.<br /><br />I really think, ppl need to get out this i'm-a-coder-i'm-worth-nothing attitude.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05009478527695401190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-29647033097640658152010-06-22T18:50:58.802-07:002010-06-22T18:50:58.802-07:00"It is hilarious to hearing someone say"..."It is hilarious to hearing someone say"i am just a developer". it makes no sense. If an individual doesnt appreicate his/her role, market his / her role then who do you think can appreciate your work. You end up directing aspiring develoers like me to Managerial roles becuase managers are good enough to exhibit thier value. Look, when you know you know what you are doing, i dont think you would say "i'm just a developer". "<br /><br />Spoken like a true PHB. Comments like this illustrate my point better than I ever could!Ravihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03630087669712445498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-77340988386438157402010-06-22T15:12:59.803-07:002010-06-22T15:12:59.803-07:00my o my! i just finished reading "every"...my o my! i just finished reading "every" comment. This is a great place to watch. Thanks a lot for this post. I'd like to recall what Steve B (MSFT) said "Developers Developers Developers" :). Managers if they look at "management" as a Science(like my mentor Vaidy said), can they really realize the time most of the managers wasted just managing People, some bossing around, some just causing pain, some just hoping to see things falling in place. <br />\/Peace<br />Mallikarjuna S KavetiUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05179369109467329448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-22513904441531496002010-06-22T14:12:57.457-07:002010-06-22T14:12:57.457-07:00I have 6 years of Ops experience and i'm now d...I have 6 years of Ops experience and i'm now doing Program Management Role. I always want to become a Developer. It is hilarious to hearing someone say"i am just a developer". it makes no sense. If an individual doesnt appreicate his/her role, market his / her role then who do you think can appreciate your work. You end up directing aspiring develoers like me to Managerial roles becuase managers are good enough to exhibit thier value. Look, when you know you know what you are doing, i dont think you would say "i'm just a developer". I learnt programming in 1994. Due to wotever reasons i couldnt pursue. Now i want to claim my identity. After being in to Ops and Program Management i know what makes a Good Manager and what makes a good Dev / DBA / Sys Engg / Sys Admin. Every job is crucial and its value depends on those who are doing it.<br />\/Peace<br />Mallikarjuna S KavetiUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05179369109467329448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-38661352614767043152010-06-22T12:01:14.269-07:002010-06-22T12:01:14.269-07:00I agree . I agree so much that I wish I wrote a po...I agree . I agree so much that I wish I wrote a post on this . I have been seeing this since I was in college . The rush to get your MBA as soon as possible . Trying to get a job in a company , just to spend 1-3 years for work ex . Cursing coding , and software development in general because of the lack of good work in India, with the solution being an MBA . Man , I am so sick of it all . All I want to ask these people is , that companies like IBM , HP , Microsoft and Google were not founded by ****ing MBA's ! <br /><br />Thank you , for this kick ass post .aShyCarnalKidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06708483268962279495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-46662708831569954452010-06-19T21:24:37.672-07:002010-06-19T21:24:37.672-07:00I kind of wonder if it's partially a generatio...I kind of wonder if it's partially a generational thing as well, at least here in the US. I've noticed where I work that many from the older generations are more concerned about climbing the corporate ladder than they are about enjoying the code they write. Several of my peers recently turned down a management position to stay in the code, and it seems to be a growing trend.<br /><br />It seems to be a trend with more senior people at my company as well, but I hope to remain "stuck" in the code as well.CPP Devhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05255039881491778034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-951352744105918172010-01-22T06:33:40.269-08:002010-01-22T06:33:40.269-08:00Really interesting analysis of Indian people or ra...Really interesting analysis of Indian people or rather employee's attitude. <br />The root of this attitude is to get recognised in society and some extend its true in many societies.<br /><br />Nice post Ravi..Ganeshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16281845856362990557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-59792107890882948492009-12-17T05:25:55.075-08:002009-12-17T05:25:55.075-08:00I think everyone here is pointing towards culture ...I think everyone here is pointing towards culture and slamming the IndianBigSoftwareCo - but truly, how much of the coding done in India in really cutting edge. <br /><br />Most Indian Soft Co. do software maintenance - where if a manager feels that the coder is replaceable (read: 'any monkey' doing it) may not exactly be far from truth!<br /><br />This may change as Indian startups and companies do more 'meaningful' work where writing good code matters!!Nikhil Kulkarnihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06122713213289886963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-18754968820106860822009-12-10T06:24:53.599-08:002009-12-10T06:24:53.599-08:00Commenting again...
Yes, I do feel there is a pr...Commenting again... <br /><br />Yes, I do feel there is a pressure to "grow" in India. There are very few opportunities to grow in a technical direction. Many companies claims they have a technical stream of growth, but it seems like the difference is in the job title only - Tech Lead instead of Project Lead :-)<br /><br />If you have to grow, you have to manage "code monkeys". The hierarchy does not allow you to gain technical skills and provide technical leadership. <br /><br />There are many colleagues in my "Western country" development center who have 10+ years experience, married, have kids but still are developers (with varying levels of expertise), paid well, happy with their job. One of them even has his own Solaris server machine at home where he does his experiements. Another senior architect would even ask me to review his code, would review mine and talk about technology in general on IM, without any "senior manager" mindset.shadowshttp://perpendicularthought.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8993901435573921786.post-12827875752849855122009-12-10T06:14:21.388-08:002009-12-10T06:14:21.388-08:00>>> I don't really have a problem wit...>>> I don't really have a problem wit this because (a) in India, developers are subservient enough to play this game, and don't push back enough<br />>>><br /><br /><br />First of all, I join this big-name company, I was told I would be working on Java Enterprise technologies, and my job profile was to "design and code" for a new product they were making. <br /><br />Instead, I am "stuck" with a 10 year old applet based product which has been touched by maybe over 100 developers. I still do the best job that I can do (and believe me, it is better than developers working on it before me were doing). <br /><br />Later, the pointy haired boss (ok, he does not have pointy hair) tells me during my appraisal that I am doing what any average fresher does, and that he expects more from me after 4 years experience. I did push him back saying that I have been allocated this work, even I want to do something where I can use my 5 year experience. Of course, the manager does not listen and he says that the product is very good (I wonder how he said that with a straight face). <br /><br />There were a few similar incidents later when I "dared to reply back". During the next appraisal 6 months later, he threatened to lay me off. <br /><br />Its not easy in India to fight back against such managers. Being laid off is still a stigma here. And even though this is a big name MNC, the organizational hierarchy is very hierarchical. There is no one I can approach with any genuine grievance that I may have. Even if things come to a boiling point, I cannot prove anything (he threatened me verbally). Neither can he prove that he never said such things, but his word will be taken over mine.shadowshttp://perpendicularthought.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com